If you think you are a good pilot check this out.

This is truly amazing...............wish I had the talent of the flyer
of this model.................


This needs a fast computer, so don't go here unless you do. This is
some fantastic flying even for a model.


http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv

Big John wrote:
>
> If you think you are a good pilot check this out.

Can some of us not-so-hot pilots check it out too? :-)

George Patterson
He who marries for money earns every penny of it.

So, if you want to be a good pilot, listen to more Enya?


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Big John wrote:
> >
> > If you think you are a good pilot check this out.
>
> Can some of us not-so-hot pilots check it out too? :-)
>
> George Patterson
> He who marries for money earns every penny of it.

quick.. someone turn on the A/C.. wonder how that would spoil his flight..

BT

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> If you think you are a good pilot check this out.
>
> This is truly amazing...............wish I had the talent of the flyer
> of this model.................
>
>
> This needs a fast computer, so don't go here unless you do. This is
> some fantastic flying even for a model.
>
>
> http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv
>

"wondernut" > wrote in message
...
> So, if you want to be a good pilot, listen to more Enya?

No, you get a plane with incredibly low mass and an impossibly-high
thrust-to-weight ratio. Overplayed new-age music optional.

-cwk.

The pilot's pretty good, but the airplane is amazing.

All the components--battery, motor, receiver, speed controller and three
servos--must be wonderfully small and light. The battery capacity is
impressive, too. Electric motor powered RC has come a long way since I
left the hobby 10 years ago.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Yes, there have been big advances in electric RC the last few years.
Small electric motors ("speed 400" being the most common), tiny
recievers and electronic speed controls, and most significent, the
lithium polymer battery.

John

Knew you guys would enjoy the technology and pilot technique.

No way could I have done what he did even even with his airplane and
I'm not a bad flier.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:44:21 -0600, Big John >
wrote:

>If you think you are a good pilot check this out.
>
>This is truly amazing...............wish I had the talent of the flyer
>of this model.................
>
>
>This needs a fast computer, so don't go here unless you do. This is
>some fantastic flying even for a model.
>
>
>http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv

I am practicing with mine, but no where that skill level!

My model weighs 7.5 oz all up with 4 channel controls, has 2.5 X as
much thrust as weight, and with the li-po battery can hover for 10+
minutes or tear up the gym for 20+ minutes on a single charge..

We have come a long way!

Dave

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:22:07 -0600, "Dan Luke"
> wrote:

>The pilot's pretty good, but the airplane is amazing.
>
>All the components--battery, motor, receiver, speed controller and three
>servos--must be wonderfully small and light. The battery capacity is
>impressive, too. Electric motor powered RC has come a long way since I
>left the hobby 10 years ago.

I have a friend that can do that stuff. I was alright but nothing like those
guys.You can check some of his videos.
http://marktrent1.com/

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> If you think you are a good pilot check this out.
>
> This is truly amazing...............wish I had the talent of the flyer
> of this model.................
>
>
> This needs a fast computer, so don't go here unless you do. This is
> some fantastic flying even for a model.
>
>
> http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv
>

>"Big John" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv
>>
>On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:17:17 -0800, "aluckyguess" > wrote in >::

>I have a friend that can do that stuff. I was alright but nothing like those
>guys.You can check some of his videos.
>http://marktrent1.com/
>

Many thanks for the link to your friend's videos. His Giant Scale
aircraft is remarkable, however this one is a little more like the one
in the link provided by the OP:

http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1573

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:44:21 -0600, Big John >
wrote in >::

>
>http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv

Here's another: http://www.nesail.com/videos/quasar.mpg

Why does it take an electric motor to provide this sort of
performance?

Could this portend a future trend in manned aircraft?

Larry

There are some UAV's, now in test, that run on batteries.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:03:26 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:44:21 -0600, Big John >
>wrote in >::
>
>>
>>http://www.fan-tasticmodels.com/muller.wmv
>
>Here's another: http://www.nesail.com/videos/quasar.mpg
>
>Why does it take an electric motor to provide this sort of
>performance?
>
>Could this portend a future trend in manned aircraft?
>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:12:17 -0600, Big John >
wrote in >::

>There are some UAV's, now in test, that run on batteries.

I know Aerovironment made one for the government powered by solar
cells. Are you referring to something else?

Basically, unlike only a short time ago, you can now pack more
horsepower and duration into a model with an electric power system
than glow power.....

My most powerfull models are electric.....

One reason for this is that the model can be built very light because
the structure does not have to secure and withstand the pounding of a
recriprocating engine....

My indoor model hovers at 30-40 % throttle..., and my Cloud Dancer
(with the old ni-cads) has unlimited vertical.

With a comparable li-po battery, it would be ballistic, and I would
have to land it when before I get tired...

We have come a long way...

Dave



On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:03:26 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:


>
>Why does it take an electric motor to provide this sort of
>performance?
>

>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:03:26 GMT, Larry Dighera >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Why does it take an electric motor to provide this sort of
>>performance?
>>
>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:57:39 -0400, Dave
> wrote in
>::

>Basically, unlike only a short time ago, you can now pack more horsepower and duration into a model with an electric power system than glow power.....

Are you sure about that? Are you aware of any 16 horsepower electric
motors on the model airplane market? Here's one that claims to output
16.5 hp: http://www.desertaircraft.com/engines_detail.php?Page=DA-150

>My most powerfull models are electric.....
>
>One reason for this is that the model can be built very light because
>the structure does not have to secure and withstand the pounding of a
>recriprocating engine....

So it's easier to increase the horsepower to weight ratio with
electric powered aircraft, because they don't have to be built so
stoutly?

>My indoor model hovers at 30-40 % throttle...,

Isn't the increased control over throttled power output of electric
motors part of the reason they are beginning supplant IC engines in
some arenas? I would guess that the absence of exhaust emissions,
flammable fuel, noise, and starter are also part of the attractiveness
of electric power.

>and my Cloud Dancer (with the old ni-cads) has unlimited vertical.

Right. From the videos I've seen, it looks as if the electric powered
aircraft hanging on their propellers are actually performing in "helo"
mode rather than using the wings' lift for flying.

>With a comparable li-po battery, it would be ballistic, and I would
>have to land it when before I get tired...

>We have come a long way...

The advancements in battery technology and electric motor development
are remarkable. I'm just wondering if it is scaleable to manned
aircraft.

>
>>Basically, unlike only a short time ago, you can now pack more horsepower and duration into a model with an electric power system than glow power.....
>
>Are you sure about that? Are you aware of any 16 horsepower electric
>motors on the model airplane market? Here's one that claims to output
>16.5 hp: http://www.desertaircraft.com/engines_detail.php?Page=DA-150
>
>>My most powerfull models are electric.....

OOPS!...I should explain further....
AIRCRAFT, not necessarily the ENGINE...

I have several models with more powerful engines.... but none with
the power/weight ratio of the electrics....


>
>So it's easier to increase the horsepower to weight ratio with
>electric powered aircraft, because they don't have to be built so
>stoutly?

Yes....they have to be constructed only to support flight
loads/stresses... LOTS of wood blocks, hardwood and plywood goes
away......foam plastic and light plastic components appear in the
construction that would in no way survive the pounding of a recip
engine...

>
>>My indoor model hovers at 30-40 % throttle...,
>
>Isn't the increased control over throttled power output of electric
>motors part of the reason they are beginning supplant IC engines in
>some arenas? I would guess that the absence of exhaust emissions,
>flammable fuel, noise, and starter are also part of the attractiveness
>of electric power.

....all correct.....I can idle an electric motor at speed you can count
the blades as they pass....and I had never had a motor completely fail
in flight.

The new "outrunners" do not require a gearbox in most applications..
only mechanical points of failure are the bearings...
>
>>and my Cloud Dancer (with the old ni-cads) has unlimited vertical.
>
>Right. From the videos I've seen, it looks as if the electric powered
>aircraft hanging on their propellers are actually performing in "helo"
>mode rather than using the wings' lift for flying.
>
>>With a comparable li-po battery, it would be ballistic, and I would
>>have to land it when before I get tired...
>
>>We have come a long way...
>
>The advancements in battery technology and electric motor development
>are remarkable. I'm just wondering if it is scaleable to manned
>aircraft.
>

Rats... that post went too soon.. I hate laptop KB's....

To continue....


>>
>>Isn't the increased control over throttled power output of electric
>>motors part of the reason they are beginning supplant IC engines in
>>some arenas? I would guess that the absence of exhaust emissions,
>>flammable fuel, noise, and starter are also part of the attractiveness
>>of electric power.
>

Yes.. the lack of noise, exhaust, (can fly indoors), no oily gunk to
be cleaned off the model and less ground support equipment are a
given..

>>
>>>and my Cloud Dancer (with the old ni-cads) has unlimited vertical.
>>
>>Right. From the videos I've seen, it looks as if the electric powered
>>aircraft hanging on their propellers are actually performing in "helo"
>>mode rather than using the wings' lift for flying.

Yes, we call it "3D" flying..and some models (and pilots) fly as if
there is no consideration given to the presence of gravity.... :)
>>

>>
>>The advancements in battery technology and electric motor development
>>are remarkable. I'm just wondering if it is scaleable to manned
>>aircraft.
>>

Dono Larry.....

Statistically, the next "breakthrough" in battery technology is only
two years away... and I am told by those who "should" know, that we
will soon see fuel cells in high end laptops...

I am amazed that we are "here"...already

Scaleable to "full size" ?

It seems possible, and even probable...

I expect it will happen..

Cheers!
Dave

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 01:43:56 -0400, Dave
> wrote in
>::


>>>are remarkable. I'm just wondering if it is scaleable to manned
>>>aircraft.
>>>
>
>Dono Larry.....
>
>Statistically, the next "breakthrough" in battery technology is only
>two years away...

What sort of "breakthrough" might that be?

>and I am told by those who "should" know, that we
>will soon see fuel cells in high end laptops...

I find that hard to believe.

>I am amazed that we are "here"...already
>
>Scaleable to "full size" ?
>
>It seems possible, and even probable...
>
>I expect it will happen..
>

It's getting a lot closer:
http://www.google.co.uk/groups?q=fuel+cell+group:rec.aviation.piloting&hl=en&lr=&selm=cviudvc6cn51pjqdf48ovp1s0c69ejnjhq%404ax.com&rnum=1

>>
>>Statistically, the next "breakthrough" in battery technology is only
>>two years away...
>
>What sort of "breakthrough" might that be?


No idea Larry,- this based on the historically shortening time
periods between "Breakthroughs" in battery technology...



>
>>and I am told by those who "should" know, that we
>>will soon see fuel cells in high end laptops...
>
>I find that hard to believe.

So do I, BUT the Laboratory size fuel cells that have been successfull
are small, light, and will operate a modern laptop...
>
>>I am amazed that we are "here"...already
>>
>>Scaleable to "full size" ?
>>
>>It seems possible, and even probable...
>>
>>I expect it will happen..
>>
>
>It's getting a lot closer:
>http://www.google.co.uk/groups?q=fuel+cell+group:rec.aviation.piloting&hl=en&lr=&selm=cviudvc6cn51pjqdf48ovp1s0c69ejnjhq%404ax.com&rnum=1

Who knows what is next!

Dave